Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:30:02 -0500 From: Gerald Pitts To: 'John Howland' Subject: RE: Draft Spring 2004 Schedule (fwd) John, You could use that argument on several courses including the 2 hour Senior Capstone experience courses. Our Senior thesis course is 2 hours - is this more important and more work than that? As I told him before this course is more geared for CSCI 3291 because it is not covered in our core courses and because it is advanced it should require at least CSCI 2320. If he wants to make a "real" course then he needs to submit a proposal to the department and then if accepted he could teach it as a 3 hour seminar course as a pilot until UCC accepted. To keep him happy - let him do it. Gerald Dr. Gerald Pitts Caruth Distinguished Professor /Chair of Computer Science Dept. Trinity University 715 Stadium Drive San Antonio,Texas 78212 gpitts@trinity.edu (210) 999-8263 -----Original Message----- From: John Howland [mailto:jhowland@ariel.cs.trinity.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 10:03 AM To: gerald@ariel.cs.trinity.edu Subject: RE: Draft Spring 2004 Schedule (fwd) Mark makes a good argument about students getting adequate credit for the work done. The three hours credit is ok with me, but you can cast the final vote. -- _______________________________________________________________ John E. Howland url: http://www.cs.trinity.edu/~jhowland/ Computer Science email: jhowland@ariel.cs.trinity.edu Trinity University voice: (210) 999-7364 One Trinity Place fax: (210) 999-7477 San Antonio, Texas 78212-7200 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:12:30 -0500 From: Mark C. Lewis To: John Howland Subject: RE: Draft Spring 2004 Schedule Well, the only reason that I wanted it to be 3 hours was because the objectives that I had for the class and my goals for what the students should learn are fairly large. Also, my perception is that students take 3 hour classes a lot more seriously than they take classes that count for fewer hours. I'd have to think a bit about whether I want to teach the course if it is only 2 hours because I can't expect to get as much from the students in that situation and I'd probably have to cut out one of the three types of things that I wanted them to do. Since I can't really cut out coding aspect of the class, I would either have to cut out having them read and discussion various books on effective programming techniques or I'll have to cut out design patterns with is something that Mark Robinson had suggested to me. That hadn't been part of my plan until quite recently. I think the thing that really worries me is the belief that students don't work as hard for something that they don't see as a "real" class and that seems to include almost everything under 3 hours. When I taught 3294 my first semester I ran into problems where students thought that the work load was too much for a 2 hour class. Almost that exact statement was made in at least one course evaluation. I have to admit this also makes me question the whole basis of using Special Topics courses if they are never allowed to count for as much as a regular course in the curriculum. At the retreat one alternative that was mentioned to adding extra courses like Compilers to the catalog was to teach them as a special topics. That solution loses something if the course is also forced to have fewer hours. Just thoughts. I'll try to do a quick poll of the students who I think would be likely to take the course and see what their thoughts are. My main worry with a 3 hour course would be some students not being able to take it if they have a 1 hour (or 4 hour) course someplace else. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: John Howland [mailto:jhowland@ariel.cs.trinity.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 5:20 PM > To: Mark C. Lewis > Subject: RE: Draft Spring 2004 Schedule > > > On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, John Howland wrote: > > > On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Mark C. Lewis wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > Would it be possible to have my special topics be 3394-1 > instead of 3290-2? > > > I was hoping to have it be a three hour course and I expect > between 10 and > > I have been getting input from Gerald on the schedule (he has to > live with it > administratively in the Spring). He would prefer giving the course as > 3294 rather than 3394 for a number of reasons. One is to > encourage students > to take some of our regular electives. Another I have is to leave another > seminar hour to be used in another way. So I'm backing away from > my earlier > yes a bit. Convince me we are wrong. > > > > 15 students so I'm not certain the "Directed Study" title is > as fitting. > > > Right now 3394-1 is listed as a class to be deleted and > Gerald had been the > > > instructor. > > > > Yes, see attachment. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mark > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: John Howland [mailto:jhowland@ariel.cs.trinity.edu] > > > > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 1:25 PM > > > > To: csfaculty@ariel.cs.trinity.edu > > > > Subject: Re: Draft Spring 2004 Schedule > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, John Howland wrote: > > > > > > > > I have included changes from Mark, Berna and Paul > > > > in the attached copy of the schedule. > > > > > > > > > I have input from Mark, Berna, Paul and Gerald on > > > > > the Spring schedule. Take a look and let me know > > > > > if there are any problems with the courses you are > > > > > scheduled to teach. > > > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > > > John E. Howland url: http://www.cs.trinity.edu/~jhowland/ > > > > Computer Science email: jhowland@ariel.cs.trinity.edu > > > > Trinity University voice: (210) 999-7364 > > > > One Trinity Place fax: (210) 999-7477 > > > > San Antonio, Texas 78212-7200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________________________ > John E. Howland url: http://www.cs.trinity.edu/~jhowland/ > Computer Science email: jhowland@ariel.cs.trinity.edu > Trinity University voice: (210) 999-7364 > One Trinity Place fax: (210) 999-7477 > San Antonio, Texas 78212-7200 >